What Every Dad Should Know: Lessons From Literary Legend James Patterson

James Patterson (00:00:35):

The only time I remember hugging my father was on his death bed. So many guys out there are lost, overwhelmed. They're no longer the breadwinner or whatever they thought they're going to be, but I also realized that I could love someone in a significant way, and also that I was lovable. This person, this court guy, is actually lovable. And if we could get more guys to that place, they would have better lives.

Mel Robbins (00:01:02):

How did becoming a father later in life really change you?

James Patterson (00:01:06):

At the end of the day when we're looking back at our lives, the most important job you're ever going to have is as a mom and a dad. And to realize that a little bit and have that drive you, that's probably the most important thing that we do.

Mel Robbins (00:01:21):

Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I am thrilled that you're here and it is always such an honor to spend time together to be with you. And today, holy cow, are you and I in for a spectacular treat? We get to sit down with none other than James Patterson. And if you're a new listener, I just want to take a moment and personally welcome you to the Mel Robbins podcast family. Thank you for being here. And because you made the time to listen to this particular episode, here's what I know about you. I know that you're either a mega James Patterson fan, or you are the kind of person who values the people in your life. And you would love to know simple ways to improve your relationships with the people who matter most. And I'm going to tell you something.

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If you're not a James Patterson fan, you will be after the conversation today, James Patterson has sold a mind blowing 400 million copies of his books and counting. I mean, you can't step into anyone's house, a bookstore, a library, even the tiniest airport newsstand around the world without spotting a James Patterson title, or heck, 10 of them staring right back at you. Alex Cross, Michael Bennett, the Women's Murder Club, James Patterson, has written everything from edge of your seat. Thrillers laugh out loud kids books, jaw dropping true crime, heartwarming tales of love and loss. You name it, if it's part of the human experience, James Patterson has written it and readers adore him, having authored or co-authored over 200 books. He's a literary legend and a machine, and he just keeps on going and going and going and breaking records along the way. James Patterson holds the Guinness World record for the most. Number one New York Times bestsellers.

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He's the first author to sell a million eBooks and the awards they just stack up like a stories, but his impact goes far beyond what he creates. James Patterson is a philanthropist dedicated to improving literacy. He's donated over a million books to students and to soldiers serving overseas. He awards scholarships to future teachers and writers through the Patterson Family Foundation. And he has poured more than $9 million into school libraries and independent bookstores across the United States and out of everything he's written and accomplished, dad is still his favorite title. His newest release is the number one dad book. Be The Best Dad You Can be in one hour. I've read it. It's a fast, funny and heartfelt read, packed with the real life lessons James Patterson wishes he'd known sooner. Now he's come to our Boston Studios today for one reason to be here with you and to share those lessons with you, lessons you'll want to share with all the soon to be dads, fathers, grandfathers, and father figures in your life. And this is a pretty special moment for me because my dad, hi Dad, happens to be one of the biggest James Patterson fans I know.

James Patterson (00:04:31):

I'm excited. I really am. And a lot of times at these things you don't get that excited, but this time it's really fun, I think.

Mel Robbins (00:04:38):

Well, I'm so excited to discuss your newest book. I mean, you've got so many books, but this one is really special. The number one dad book, be the Best Dad you can be in one hour. I would love to start by just having you speak directly to the person who has found the time and made the time to be here with you and me today. What might they experience about their life that could be different if they

James Patterson (00:05:07):

I think person, hopefully this book, and I think it is in the spirit of what Mel does with all of these podcasts, which is to help a little, and that's huge help a little to make tomorrow a little better to and in particular because this book affects everybody in your family. It's for dads, but in talking to dads and helping dads to be better, it will help their partners and it will definitely help the kids and the grandparents even. So this book I think is in the spirit with pretty much everything that Mel does. And I think it's particularly useful because this isn't a book about, well, let's think about stuff and then we go home and nothing changes. This is about doing. This is about changing in good ways, and it's not a book perfect. I don't believe in that. And I don't know, I don't think we can be every God can be perfect, but not us. This is about being better tomorrow than we were today. And as I said, the idea of doing this for the whole family is I think it's a very useful thing and I'm really excited about spending some time with you

Mel Robbins (00:06:19):

And we're super excited to spend time with you and we're going to dig into this book. I love, love, love this book, and I know you're going to love it too. And before we jump into the number one dad book and all the incredible lessons in it, I just want to take a step back and talk a little bit about your career. You were not born a bestselling author, but the world knows you as probably the most successful living author today, 400 million copies of your book sold.

James Patterson (00:06:52):

Yeah, too many. Way too many. He writes too many books, but whatever.

Mel Robbins (00:06:55):

67 number one, New York Times bestsellers. You've got 13 more books coming out this year alone. And you have a really interesting story though, because you didn't begin as a writer. You were studying to get a PhD and then went into advertising. Tell me a little bit about your background.

James Patterson (00:07:14):

Well, I was in advertising, but I've been clean for 30 years now, so thank you for bringing that up. Yeah, I grew up, well, grew up in a small town, upstate New York, Newburgh, New York. My father actually grew up in a poor house there. His mother was a charwoman. She cleaned the bathrooms in the kitchens and they had shared a room in the basement. And so kind of lower middle class in terms of the way we grew up. And always I was a good student, but I wasn't a big reader in high school, Catholic high school. I moved up actually in this area, my parents did moved to Lexington. I worked at McLean Hospital in Belmont nearby mental hospital. And I worked a lot of night shifts and I would go into Cambridge like three times a week and just get these books. You could buy 'em for 25 cents.

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And I started reading, reading, reading. And then I started scribbling. And this turned around my life and I think saved me as a human being and has eliminated a lot of stress and source and difficulty for my life because somebody said, you're lucky if you find something you like to do and then it's a miracle or somebody will pay you to do it. Well, in starting to read and reading stuff that I wanted to read and reading a lot of fiction and plays and whatever, I found what I wanted to do. I wasn't getting paid for it yet, but that was just so key to find this thing. I knew that I wanted to be a writer.

Mel Robbins (00:08:44):

So do you remember the moment where you're like, I think I want to do this for a living?

James Patterson (00:08:48):

I don't think, it wasn't that I wanted to do for a living, but I wanted to do it. I wanted to write novels. I went down to Vanderbilt for grad school and I was very lucky to have a professor there who just said, you got it. You have this thing, you can do it. I was writing a lot of short stories and I wrote, there was actually the first book, I published it when I was 26, the Thomas Berman number. It got turned down by 31 publishers, then it went an Edgar as Best First novel. So go figure that one out. And that's the thing in terms of people, sometimes you get rejected, you get rejected, but if you believe in yourself, just keep going. And that was something that I did. I kind of, and this professor helped a lot. He said, no, you can do this. You have what it takes to be a really good writer or it to be successful, at least to make a living doing it.

Mel Robbins (00:09:38):

Wasn't it Almost 20 years later though that along came The spider was published, and that's kind of the Alex Cross novel. That's the one that my dad's like, oh, James, I grew up with a dad who was always reading your books. Always. And so I think it's also important to note, because more than anything, you've not only been patient, you've been persistent. And I think that's a really important lesson when I look at your life from the outside.

James Patterson (00:10:07):

It's a simple thing with me. I just love to do it.

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I don't work for a living. I play for a living, honestly. And you're so lucky. I mean, anybody that has happen to them, and it does with some people, some nurses, some teachers, some they just love it. My mother was a teacher for 50 years or so, and I just wrote a nonfiction book about teachers. It's so hard for them now because they're getting pressure from the left. They're getting pressure from the right, they're getting, the kids are more unruly than they've ever been. The parents, some of them are. So it's very, very hard. People are telling them how to teach, how not to teach, what does you do? So it's really, really, really, really, really hard. But it's just so important that the kids get educated. And I do a lot in that area. Mostly literacy. But something that I think that's even more important than I wish we could teach in school. I'll just give you this, which is think literacy, think thinky, thinky, which is teaching kids how to think when they come in. A typical kid, whatcha going to do after school. I'll know just getting them to say, well, you could read a book, you could play soccer, you could rob a liquor store. There's so many things just opening their brains up. And if they could do that in school all the time, because with the kids, a lot of times if you just keep, one of the things that they'll do is at the blank screen, they panic.

Mel Robbins (00:11:30):

Yes.

James Patterson (00:11:30):

Alright, let's say the subject was, you got to write a story about something blank screen. Okay, you got a blank screen. We got it. Just put a picture up in a blank screen. Anything you can think of. A rabbit. Okay, great. You could write about a rabbit. Put another picture up there. My mom making bread. Good. You could write about that. So think of it getting kids in the habit habit with monstrous thing for your books, for my books, getting people in the habit. How do you get them? I did it once. Do it again, do it again, do it again. But if they did that in schools, it would be great for us. There are studies now that kids, they're doing less thinking, less reasoning than ever. And that's not good.

Mel Robbins (00:12:16):

Because they're spending more time on their phones.

James Patterson (00:12:18):

I don't know what they're doing, but they're not thinking.

Mel Robbins (00:12:21):

Well, what I also think is really interesting, so you published your first book at the age of 26 after 31 rejections, but you continued to work in advertising for a long time while you were writing books. It's a really important part of your story. I think a lot of people think that you find the thing and then you just do that thing, but you kept a day job.

James Patterson (00:12:43):

It didn't seem logical for me. I didn't want to put pressure on the writing. I didn't want to be in a situation where it's like, if I don't get this published, it's going to be pressure. I didn't want start dreading the thing that I loved.

Mel Robbins (00:12:58):

I think that's a huge takeaway that you had the insight to say, I love this thing so much that if I were to jump in too soon and put pressure on it to make money, it actually squeezes the joy and the art out of the thing that I'm doing.

James Patterson (00:13:15):

Yeah. Well, that's just the way I looked at it. Yes.

Mel Robbins (00:13:16):

Well, it's brilliant. And actually there's a lot of research around entrepreneurs and they say that if an entrepreneur keeps their day job, they are a third less likely to fail for precisely that reason. Because you basically are spreading your bets and you're earning your money over here, which takes the pressure off the thing that you're doing over there. So it was an actual brilliant move.

James Patterson (00:13:41):

I don't know if it's just my DNA or something with my parents, whatever, in terms of, well, okay, what's the consequence of that? Where's that going to go? Is that going to be a good thing for you? So a little cautious, but not in a bad way. I think.

James Patterson (00:14:02):

Well, I think part of it, I mean, that's why I do my outlines and not everybody does this. I do interviews a little bit like Michael Connolly doesn't do outlines and ache doesn't do outlines, but I do, and I'm not a slave to them. I mean, I'll do my outline and it can be 50, 60, 70 pages, but then I'm open to, and I always do change 'em because you're writing and you find it and a character is more interesting than you thought they were going to be, or theoretically you were going to get rid of the bad guy. Oh no. But I want the bad guy to come back. And so to be open to change is also important. And I guess that's important in life too. It's sort of like you have to outline your life and to have a plan, but not to worry about it.

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I think I'd like to. And the other thing think is to be open, and a lot of people aren't open. They get to, oh, I never want to do this. I never, well, you don't know. And I think even with kids, how do you get them just to be open, just to consider this? Think about this. People will take kids out to see colleges and the kids go, oh, I love these buildings. That's nice, but in a month you will stop noticing the buildings. But what really is it about this school that's really going to, for example, our son went to Brown, and the culture there is you're all smart, so don't beat each other up and support each other. So that's the important thing about that school or one of the important things. If that appeals to you, then that's a good school for you. Much more important than, I really liked the buildings and it was so cute and No, no, no. That culture, that's really important. If that appeals to you,

Mel Robbins (00:15:42):

How do you come up with so many ideas?

James Patterson (00:15:48):

It's hell.

Mel Robbins (00:15:49):

What do you mean it's hell?

James Patterson (00:15:50):

No, I'm kidding.

Mel Robbins (00:15:51):

It seems like a gift.

James Patterson (00:15:53):

Yes, it is a gift. For whatever reason, I just have this monstrous imagination. I think a piece of it is growing up in Newburgh, initially it was seven or eight acres. My grandmother's, it was just woods once again, modest house that they built my grandmother and grandfather, and then Woods and I would wander out in those woods and just make up stories. Story, story, story, story, story, story, story. And I think I just got into the habit of it. I remember when I was going to Vanderbilt, I used to drive down there from Massachusetts. I was living and it was like 28 hours, whatever the hell it was. And I would write musical plays going back and forth to Vanderbilt. I would just make up these plays and I would make 'em up on the spot and I would sing the songs. I'm terrible singer, and create the characters as I was going. And I don't know, it's somehow in my head, I don't know why, but maybe it's dreams. I don't know where it comes from. Sometimes I'll wake up and I'll be in the middle of a story that I've been dreaming.

Mel Robbins (00:16:55):

And then Do you have a notebook by your bed that you then make notes? I used to.

James Patterson (00:16:58):

I used to. But now what I found out is that if it's good, you're going to remember it. And if you bother to write it down, it wasn't that good. You go, what is this? Why did I write this down? The good stuff. I think I remember.

Mel Robbins (00:17:13):

And do you typically work on one project?

James Patterson (00:17:16):

No,

Mel Robbins (00:17:16):

At a time?

James Patterson (00:17:17):

No. No. Right now, I think there are 31 live projects, things that I'm working on.

Mel Robbins (00:17:23):

And so do you walk in and it's sort of like one of those docents, which one's pulling me toward today?

James Patterson (00:17:29):

No, I know I what the one or two or three that I'm messing around with are. But the good thing about it's you don't get writer's block that way.

Mel Robbins (00:17:37):

Well, it's interesting that you say that because one of the things that I read about a technique or a strategy that you use that I found super help, I'm like, oh my gosh, I wish I would've read this years ago. As you said that a lot of writers trip themselves up because they try to get the chapter perfect and you have this ability if the chapter's not working, to just be like, okay, next.

James Patterson (00:18:00):

Yeah, for me, and I think for a lot of writers, go on, go to the next chapter, get it on the rewrite, get it the next rewrite, and ultimately if you don't get it, turn that chapter into a paragraph, starting the next chapter. Great. If you can't ultimately figure it out, instead of killing yourself, perfection. And some things is the enemy of progress. Maybe not in certain tech areas, but in a lot of things it's like, no, don't worry about perfection, just keep moving the ball forward, pushing it up the whatever, Sisyphus, et cetera. For me anyway, and I never ever give advice. I just, here's some thoughts, here's some thoughts. I mean, part of it with the dad's book, we'll get into it, but part of it had to do with right through high school, people always came to me for, what do you think of this? What do you think of that? Da da da da. And that's a little of what got me doing that book. The idea of, I have a lot of thoughts to share,

Mel Robbins (00:19:01):

And I also think we've only just met, but I also think you are a very sincere and kind person that you come across as very, very caring. So I think it's not only that you have a lot of thoughts to share, but you are also somebody that as you share them, there is a very kind and caring intent behind the way in which you share the

James Patterson (00:19:25):

Thoughts. It's a weird, yeah, I think that's an interesting, I don't know that it's totally accurate, but

Mel Robbins (00:19:29):

I'll ask Sue.

James Patterson (00:19:31):

Yeah, I think she would say that. But I get more pleasure out of giving than receiving, just literally, it just works better for me. And the way I grew up, in particular with my grandparents, they were just very giving. That was their deal. They would do little soup kitchens and that's just the way it was. And they didn't want pats in the back or I'm going to go to heaven, or it's just the way they were. And I kind of do the same thing.

Mel Robbins (00:19:59):

One of the things that you're doing in addition to 31 open projects that you're working on right now is you have started doing a lot of writing on the subscription platform, Substack

James Patterson (00:20:09):

A little bit.

Mel Robbins (00:20:09):

Yeah. And yours is called Hungry Dogs, and it has a great backstory. Where does that name come from?

James Patterson (00:20:16):

My grandmother. She had that line. Hungry Dogs run Faster, which is, yeah, that makes sense. And she brought me up in particular, and my sisters to some extent, to be kind of hungry dogs in a good way. And she also was big on go chop wood, go do it, get it done. Don't make excuses. Just go out there and chop wood. And once again, it was never with her. She wasn't going to stress you out. She wasn't going to beat you up if you didn't do it. I mean, I think the only thing they ever did was you get a 97 on a test and they go, why didn't you get a hundred? And then they'd let it go. But that was about the extent of pressure, and I think that was healthy and good, and it was stimulating with stimulating as opposed to just cramming you up and putting pressure on you. That's not particularly useful.

Mel Robbins (00:21:12):

So when you reach your seventies, I wouldn't think that you'd be thinking you're a hungry dog, but you're not slowing down at all. And so what drives you at this stage in your life?

James Patterson (00:21:24):

Drive? I don't know that probably drive is a good word, but I never think of it that way. One of the things that helped a lot during COVID, I wrote my autobiography. I wasn't planning to, but I just started writing down a few stories and I went, I'm really enjoying this process. A and B. I said, I really want to write this well, I want to really concentrate on the sentences more than I have been in the fiction. But that helped me in my, I think the writing that I've been doing in the last couple of years, the best I've ever done in terms of, and that's why the autobiography just got me paying more attention to the sentences again, which I did way back and then got a little less, I don't know why. Lazy. A little something lazy. I don't know that well, yeah, lazy. Let's call it lazy.

Mel Robbins (00:22:08):

Well, what's the difference? There's got to be a big difference between writing fiction versus really writing an autobiography. What was that like for you?

James Patterson (00:22:18):

It was fun. It was great. And one of the things with the autobiography, I said, I'm just going to tell stories. I mentioned my father growing up in the Newburgh Poorhouse and that kind of stuff, and I don't get any credit for that, but it's just interesting to me. He was about to go off to the war and he got this phone call and this guy said, my name is George Hazelton. I live in Port Jarvis, is about 20 miles away. He said, just bear with me for just a couple of minutes. He said, last night, my parents after dinner, they said, George, come on down to living room. We want to talk to you. And they said, we love you so much, but you're going away to war and we have to tell you we're not your natural parents, and we adopted you. And then over the phone, this George Hazelton said to my father, I'm your brother.

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And that's how my father found out. He had a brother, which is a pretty stunning story. They both survived the war. They came back and after they came back three or four years later, my uncle called up again. He said, I found our father. And they had never met him in a way that they would remember. He had run off, he had a terrible Irish guy, just terrible reputation as kind of a drunk and whatever. And he said, he's in Poughkeepsie, and let's go up and see him tonight. My father said, I don't want to meet the bastard. So my uncle shy guy went up by himself, a little crummy little bar under the bridge, Hudson River, going over to New Paltz. And there's his father, to his knowledge, he's never seen the guy before. And my uncle sits in there for like 20 minutes. He doesn't drink. He orders a Coca-Cola or something. And he watches this guy, his father, who he's never met, and he's so turned off by the guy he leaves without ever introducing himself to. And until recently, I didn't even know the name of my grandfather, grandfather. It happened to be Robert, but I didn't know that. And just stories like that.

Mel Robbins (00:24:09):

Well,

James Patterson (00:24:09):

That's a big one. And that's a three page. Well, the whole book, it's just full of stuff like that. Just stories, story, story stories, yeah.

James Patterson (00:24:21):

My, and this relates to the number one dad book. The only time I remember hugging my father was on his death bed. And that says a lot. And in therapy, I learned that one of the reasons that I would get angry sometimes was just, it was my father and I had to sort of at times go yelling at this cab driver, that's not me. That's stupid, that's ridiculous. It's irrational. And that's just this whatever, pent up anger, A and B, don't blame him. He was doing the best he could, and I think he was. And one of my best friends from college, whatever, I was over his, my sue and I were having dinner over there, and their two sons both played football, high school football. And after dinner, the boys were going out the front door and my friend said, where are you guys going? And they stopped and they came over and they gave him a hug. And I said, yeah, there's a life lesson right there. Here are these two big football. But it didn't matter. They were football players, but he insisted on having a hug. So with our son Jack, every single night, and to this day, if he comes home, he gets a hug. When I came here, I got a hug. I like that.

Mel Robbins (00:25:43):

Yeah,

James Patterson (00:25:43):

It's great. I do too. And not everybody's a hugger, but the book number one dad book, it's about those little, and once again, not lectures or anything and making it work for guys that hugs are a good thing and it's a page, and the book is just full of all of those thoughts that can be helpful to guys.

Mel Robbins (00:26:03):

Well, I love that you're writing this. And I also am happy that you shared that story about your own dad and your uncle and your grandfather. Did your dad ever tell you that he loved you?

James Patterson (00:26:18):

No. Not that language.

Mel Robbins (00:26:20):

Did he ever tell you that he was proud of you?

James Patterson (00:26:23):

Yes. The book writing, he always wanted to be a writer. He wasn't. He was an insurance salesman. He did the best he could and he made a living or helped. My mother was a teacher. Between the two of 'em, they were functioning alcoholics. So that was a problem. But once again, they did the best they could.

Mel Robbins (00:26:42):

And I think one of the things that's really amazing about what you said, because it's a very, you're giving people grace, nobody can pass on what they weren't given. And when you share the story of what happened in your dad's life and the fact that his own father wasn't present, and it was also a very different time and a different generation, when you can look at your parents through compassionate eyes, you can understand that you may have deserved something different or wanted something different, but they could only give you what they had to give. Well

James Patterson (00:27:16):

Give these life lessons. And so coming to GR with my father, huge understanding that I wanted to write more than anything and that I was going to do it. I was with a woman for seven years. She developed a brain tumor, and this was the first love of my life. And it was just one that was just a great relationship and not just looking back at it, it just was, and everybody who knew us was just a wonderful relationship. She developed a brain tumor. And after she died, and this was also so important to me in terms of my journey, whatever you want to call it.

(00:27:51):

What I realized after she died was that one I understood you could deal with death in a heroic way, which she did. Unbelievable. Just the way she dealt with, she never wanted her friends to get bummed out. They would come, she'd be wearing a funny hat or something. She didn't want them to get bummed out. Just her spirit was unbelievable. But I also realized, and this was so important for me in terms of maintaining a certain balance in my life and stability and being able to live inside my own shoes, is that I understood that one, I could love someone in a significant way. Love, love, love, love somebody. And also that I was lovable, which is huge, huge. And I think it's particularly huge for guys, the idea that get past the mask and the phoniness and whatever, that you, this person, this Coreth guy is actually lovable. And if we could get more guys to that place, they would have better lives.

Mel Robbins (00:29:00):

Did you not feel lovable as a kid based on how your dad treated you?

James Patterson (00:29:04):

I don't think it was based necessarily on top. I don't think it was just my dad. I believe that the only reason that they, I'm going to overstate this, that as long as I was top of my class that I was okay. So that was whatever love I was getting, whatever that it was because of that.

Mel Robbins (00:29:26):

I think a lot of men and young men feel that way.

James Patterson (00:29:29):

A lot of momen do too.

Mel Robbins (00:29:30):

Yes. But men in particular, as long as I'm providing, as long as I'm performing, as long as I'm working, as long as I'm doing something out there, that's the worth.

James Patterson (00:29:39):

And that's going away for a lot of them. Now they have to adjust, which is one of the reasons why in terms of this book, the number one dad book, my realization that so many guys out there are lost, overwhelmed, they're no longer the breadwinner or whatever they thought they're going to be, or the warrior or whatever's built up in their brains over centuries, that it's all changing. They are lost and a lot of 'em are angry and to help them. So we did a little bit of research and we reached out and talked to about 4,000 people, which is double what Quin for this book does. For this book. Yeah. Well, just a couple of questions. And one of them was, and this is a really interesting one to me, could you be a better dad? And 89% of the dad said yes, they could be better dads. That was fascinating to me.

Mel Robbins (00:30:34):

I love this book, the number one dad book, be the Best Dad you can be in an hour. And one of the things that I love about this is you consistently put the focus on being a better father, not a perfect one. Why is that important?

James Patterson (00:30:51):

Perfect. Doesn't work perfect for me. I mentioned a little earlier about even when I was in high school and all the way through, people would always come to me and say, what do you think about this? What do you think about this? Would this girl like me, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And then as I got older, a lot of my friends and relatives, they would have younger males come and Uncle Jim or Jim or whatever, what do you think about this? And in talking to so many of these guys, I began to get a feeling for once again, this lost in space kind of thing that these guys are feeling and who am I and what's my purpose and what's the point? And then getting lost in sort of frivolous stuff like cars. I mean, cars are fine, but I mean, you're just really getting over because they have nothing as it meant something in their life. And that was a big thing in terms of why I wanted to do this book. And the notion of being able to help people, some help people some, and in this case, it's huge because if you help these dads who are lost somewhat, you're going to help the kids. You're going to help the partners. And I purposely did the one hour because a lot of guys will not read the 400 page book. And one of my gifts is to be able to compress information.

Mel Robbins (00:32:05):

Well, you know what else I love about this? Because this is, by the way, James going to be my number one gift to every new father. What I love about this is I could put this in a bathroom, I could put this in a bedroom. I can pick it up and I can read any chapter out of order or any little essay, and I want to read one of them. I'm reading on page 65, and there are these short, beautiful vignettes, and one of the lessons is your presence is required.

James Patterson (00:32:44):

Focused on the wrong things is beautiful. I mean, it's not in the book, but your words. That's exactly right.

Mel Robbins (00:32:50):

Here's one of my trade secrets. When I'm writing a novel, I sometimes scroll a note to myself at the top of the page. It says, be there. It reminds me that I need to put the reader in the scene so that they'll really feel it. The same goes for being a dad. Let's be honest. There's lots of distractions in life. The internet Zoom calls with in-laws, night shifts, Netflix, the NFL draft. There will be times when you can only give your kids part of your attention, but whenever you can, as much as you can focus, it's not just being around, although that's a big part of it, it's paying attention, setting other thoughts aside and really being present. There are some woo woo terms for this intention, mindfulness, but what it comes down to is this. When you're with your kids, be there. Have you ever seen little kids on a school stage lighting up when they spot their parents in the audience? It's like they're witnessing a miracle. Now. You are the miracle. You might not be able to be at every recital, every birthday party and every game, but be it as many as you can, it matters. Sure, someone else can shoot video of a game or a birthday, but it's only live once years later. Your kids will not remember what song they sang, what flavor cake they had, or whether they won or lost that third match of the season, but they'll remember if you were there.

James Patterson (00:34:13):

Yeah, and that's a personal one for me because somewhere in the book, I say something to the effect of, had I done this research, had I thought about it, I could have been a better dad. I could have been. And one of the things would be literally be there. I was there in the sense that I worked at home and I was around Jack a lot, but I could have been more intensely present than I was at times. So I would be distracted presence at times, and that would've been better.

Mel Robbins (00:34:41):

How did becoming a father later in life really change you?

James Patterson (00:34:46):

Well, one of the advantages that Sue and I had is that we didn't have financial problems, and that takes something baggage out of the way, which is huge. So we didn't have that. We were both totally prepared for it. We were more mature, obviously. The thing of it was is that Jane and I, the woman I was with originally who died, we would've been married and it just didn't. And then it took me a long time to get past that, but I always wanted to have kids. And then when I got together with Sue, she wanted to have kids as well. I think I was 49 when we got married. I think she was 39. Sue is interesting too. My joke line about Sue is if Sue ever leaves me, I'm going with her. But the real story is every once in a while, there are a couple hours where I can't stand her, but there's never a day goes by that I'm not in love with her. And that's true. And we pretty much every night hold hands when we go to sleep. Which is, not everybody can do that, but I think it's nice if you can do it. As I said, I've I've been very lucky about a lot of things. One of them is finding Sue.

Mel Robbins (00:36:13):

Chris and I typically start out that way, but then I get so hot.

James Patterson (00:36:16):

Well, there's a certain point I

Mel Robbins (00:36:18):

Have to let your hands

James Patterson (00:36:19):

Out. Well, I don't want to hear about the hot part, but

Mel Robbins (00:36:22):

Well, women in their fifties have a problem with heat regulation. There are just so many beautiful essays in here. I would like for you to read this one. This is on page 101,

James Patterson (00:36:38):

Guys. Let's face it. We screw up a lot. I know I do sometimes royally, but here's the silver lining. That means we can be really, really good at teaching kids about resilience and how to confront challenges and deal with mistakes and own them, which I think is huge. Life isn't always fair. I love this section, by the way. Not I wrote it. I just think there's truth here. Life isn't always fair. You already know that. But it's important that your kids learn it too. You don't have to be overly negative or pessimistic, just realistic. Muhammad Ali used to say, there's nothing wrong with getting knocked down as long as you get right back up. Don't be afraid to discuss tough topics with your kids. They can take it, help them make good decisions, get them ready for the real world, which is one of our biggest as parents. I mean, there was one thing. That's it. Get 'em ready for the real world. It's not getting any easier out there, which I think, to be honest, it seems to be getting harder every year. You don't need to scare them, just prepare them.

Mel Robbins (00:37:48):

How did you prepare Jack?

James Patterson (00:37:52):

Well, I think a lot of it is teaching him to sort of be responsible for his own actions, to be comfortable in his own skin. I think that's huge. If you can help kids to be the things that you love to do, being goofy. He was very goofy. Okay, that's okay. You can be goofy. Be careful of it in school, overdoing it in school and in his situation. And I don't know how this relates to your kids, but yeah, people know your dad and your mom was a big swimmer and whatever, but don't worry about it. It's all fine. Accept it within reason and just move on. And one of the things in going to a pretty good prep school and then a good college, he had a lot of kids who came, their parents were well-known or had done something famous or whatever, and all of his friends were cool, none of them, all of them had this thing. I didn't do anything. There's no reason for me to be. And I think that's really good. And occasionally you'd meet every once in a while there'd be one. You'd go, well, you know who my dad is, blah, blah. Well, who cares? I mean, that's cruel too. But we try not to do that. It's like be comfortable with who we are, hopefully, but don't let it get in the way.

James Patterson (00:39:13):

Oh, really? Okay.

Mel Robbins (00:39:14):

Yes. And I have

James Patterson (00:39:16):

That little creep didn't tell me

Mel Robbins (00:39:19):

And

James Patterson (00:39:19):

I thought I could trust him.

Mel Robbins (00:39:22):

I'm very persuasive and I have something to play for you.

James Patterson (00:39:27):

Okay.

Jack Patterson (00:39:28):

Hi dad. Surprise and hi, Mel. So Mel wanted me to share a bit about the impact that you've had on my life. Your strength as a parent, at least from my perspective, was helping me confidently be my own person. I sometimes felt like I found myself completely trapped in the shadow of my dad. And that can be a little disempowering. Someone goes, oh, well, that's so-and-so's kid. Or even sometimes they would call me James. My name's Jack James, isn't even my legal name. Someone just seeing you as the son or daughter of insert person here. That may seem innocuous, but I think it really can eat at you. And so for me, as someone who kind aimed for the moon and seems to maybe not be landing on the moon, but at least getting somewhere, I sort of developed an obsession with overachieving so much that I could kind of prove to this imaginary composite person taking up real estate in my mind that no way, full stop. It's me. It's not him. And I think your best quality as a parent dad, at least for me, was encouraging me when possible not to think that way. Not holding your success over my head as much as possible, not falling into the trap of being the successful person who made my childhood into a pressure cooker. So good job.

Mel Robbins (00:41:18):

He's funny.

James Patterson (00:41:19):

He was a good writer. He could have been too. He's a really good writer. He has no interest in it, which I get. But he's a really, really good writer and very funny. He could have been a comedian. He's very, he wasn't being funny here, but he can be hilarious. Anyway. Oh, that's great. That's great. I'm glad that he liked something that I did. Excellent.

Mel Robbins (00:41:40):

I think he liked more than just something.

James Patterson (00:41:42):

Well, here's the thing about Jack. Jack calls three or four times a week, which is nice. So he wants to talk to Sue more than me, but he talks to both of us. So that's a rewarding thing.

Mel Robbins (00:41:54):

Well, he's clearly a very mature and very self-aware guy, and it's clear in the way that he described his experience, that he was aware of the pressure he's putting on himself. And the compliment that he clearly gave you is that you didn't do that to him. So if the person who's listening really relates to your story like, well, I didn't have a really good example either. One of the things that I get from you and reading your book is that even if it wasn't modeled for you, you have the ability to actually change how you show up and be a different kind of dad.

James Patterson (00:42:33):

Well, I think we all do on some level. You just have to commit to it with let them, you have that one piece, which I love it actually a small piece of it, and actually something I talked with President Clinton about this notion of let's not waste our life or our time worrying about stuff we can't do anything about. And if we can do something, let's do it.

Mel Robbins (00:43:03):

Which fictional character that you've created and written about has had the biggest impact,

James Patterson (00:43:08):

Alice Cross

Mel Robbins (00:43:09):

On the way that you think about fatherhood?

James Patterson (00:43:11):

Yeah, yeah. Actually across Michael Bennett who has this big family. And I like doing stories where you go like, well, gee, that would never, Michael Bennett has like nine or 10 kids. And you go like, what? Yeah, but I love it. The fact that it is so outrageous and then making it work. But in both cases, what those stories are about on some level is balancing your work life with your home life.

(00:43:43):

That's what Alex does. And in the series that's on prime video with Alex, we have ELs Hodge who has this real intense look. So when he's out there as a cop, you really feel that and at home, and he's a new father as a human being, but in the story, he's great with the kids. And that balance, which I think is huge. There's a thing in the book about the five balls, which is a great little story that I think it was very useful for me anyway, which is if you think of life as you're juggling these five balls, and it's family and health, and I'll lose track of some of 'em. Spirits, which is sort of soul work is one. And if you drop work, it's a rubber ball and it bounces. If you drop one of the others family or health along the way, it's not rubber and it gets scuffed or it might even shatter. I think for most of us, and this relates to this book as well, in terms of why I think it's useful for people, at the end of the day when we're looking back at our lives, it's going to be more how we raised our family

(00:44:56):

In terms of the most important job you're ever going to have is as a mom and a dad. It's going to be more important than whatever you ever did than selling insurance or being an accountant or whatever. I mean. And to realize that a little bit and have that drive you and it helps you to put up with some of the stuff you have to put up with, and you realize just that's probably the most important thing that we do.

Mel Robbins (00:45:18):

It's a really profound thing to hear you say, because I think from the outside, somebody would look at the body of work and the impact that you've made having sold more than 400 million books and the series and movies and the way that these stories have transported and inspired and really enriched people's lives. And they would probably think that for you, it would be that artistry and that body of work.

James Patterson (00:45:46):

Yeah. Well, it's interesting, Mel, that I don't look at that stuff as being all that impressive or anything. Just there it is. I interviewed Peggy Noonan about a week or so ago, and well, she and I, we tend to be looking forward rather than backward. People go, do you have regrets? I don't really think about regrets much. I'm sure I do, but it's mainly, okay, what's next? What are we going to do next? So the thing about selling all the books and all that, I mean, I'm happy it, it's helped me to live a good life and in particular, being able to do what I love to do.